Nikki Humphrey (00:00)
If you have not listened to our episode about the 12 disciples that we walk through on this week's episode, we encourage you first go back and listen to that. Cause this is the overflow from that episode. And I know I'm like reeling from this episode. Hope is so excited and encouraged from this episode because not only do we learn so much about the disciples, we learn so much about ourselves.
Hope Mangiafico (00:03)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (00:28)
doing research,
seeing what these men were all about, why Jesus possibly chose them. We saw their flaws, their mess ups, and Jesus never once turned his back on them, but actually brought them closer to him. So Hope, what are your thoughts?
Hope Mangiafico (00:32)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (00:53)
After going through this episode, is there anyone you related to or something you learned about yourself or any kind of healing that
took place because of this episode?
Hope Mangiafico (01:04)
Yeah, I when we were doing the episode we both got really emotional with Thomas and there was like this beautiful like personal encounter that like it just hit me on a new level with Thomas and It explained a lot of some of my journey, you know of getting to the place I am today in the questions that I would ask that weren't necessarily like I need to know all the things but it's like
I need to encounter your love. I need to understand what you are, who you are, what you look like. You know, like, it's these questions that explained my journey of wanting to grasp my savior better. Literally, that's what Thomas's story is. And I just, didn't expect that, but it's what happened on the episode.
Nikki Humphrey (01:55)
And I related to that because so much of my story is thinking that I missed out on Jesus and I wasn't called. Like I was just, I was part of the group, but I wasn't the part that got like the magic Jesus sprinkling on it. And I felt like Thomas's heart wound when everybody's telling him that they saw him and then he doubted them because he was almost like fighting through the pain, like,
Hope Mangiafico (02:01)
right?
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (02:25)
I would Jesus show himself to everyone but me. What's wrong with me? And I felt that so much. But then Jesus redeems it. I didn't miss you and I'm calling you special. I'm calling you closer to me. And how many times in my life I thought that Jesus wasn't there, but he was right there.
Hope Mangiafico (02:27)
Okay.
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (02:50)
securing something special and holy only for me and I was ignoring it because I was too caught up in my feelings, my emotions, my negative downward spiral.
Hope Mangiafico (02:54)
Yeah.
Well, and it makes me think about when you're talking about being stuck in a downward spiral. A lot of times we kind of push that down to keep going through life. Whereas Thomas was vocal about it. We're not often vocal about those feelings until he knows our heart, but we have to speak it.
to release it. Like you said, like you've been kind of pushing it away despite him being there the whole time. He encountered Thomas, Thomas encountered him when Thomas spoke out that he had the doubt. But we don't do that often because of shame. Embarrassment, comparison, fill in the blank. ⁓ Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (03:21)
Yes.
We think our voice doesn't matter.
It's okay. I'm not gonna worry about it, but inside you really do. Yes.
Hope Mangiafico (03:47)
Which is a lie. I was like, yeah,
Nikki, whatever you just said, that's not true.
Nikki Humphrey (03:53)
Inside
you're
Hope Mangiafico (03:56)
Well, so that's something else like when we were talking about, of course, we always have an overflow, but we talked about, you know, inviting the listeners in the end of our episode to think about who they are. Though similar to, I started thinking about quiet lies because I have, I think I realize every time we record and do something like this, I have a lot more quiet lies than loud ones that I don't recognize until something comes up in an episode. And so like Peter,
There was like a connection with Peter because there could be this core quiet lie of like, I failed too much, God must be done with me. And I think I've had this quiet lie that I've unknowingly believed that can be associated with even small day-to-day tasks where I think I failed too much for the day, so God's done with me. It's not like I see big picture, I have no purpose. It's today, I've messed up. Days over, ruined it. He can't use me today.
It's the small thing, that's why I think it's quiet. And we've talked about the 1%, you know, the choices second by second. And I realize, like, I think I can relate to the redemption of Peter in that because he denied Jesus three times. He absolutely had to have that moment of like, my gosh, have I, as soon as that rooster crowed.
And that ends up affecting your big picture if you believe that you have failed too much and God must be done with you. Peter, praise God, he didn't fall under that trap.
thought about that. Like praise God we get to have him as a redemptive illustration that we use all the time because like Nikki said in our episode if you have listened to us you know we talk about Peter a lot. He's an incredible character to reveal our Savior's heart. I'm so grateful for
Nikki Humphrey (05:54)
I could relate to Peter a lot, especially because many times in my life.
Hope and I have talked about this. think God puts me on a path and I'm all in it.
spiraling.
And God's like, what are you doing? Like I just planted the seed and now you're 850 million steps ahead of me. And then when I realized like what I have done, I feel that shame. I feel like I disobeyed. I feel like I betrayed Jesus.
Hope Mangiafico (06:13)
Yeah,
yes.
Nikki Humphrey (06:29)
And for so long, that would stop me from wanting to do that again.
Hope Mangiafico (06:34)
Yeah. Swing it. Yeah. Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (06:36)
And so I could see big parts in my career where like I'm running and I'm all in the curly cues. And then I pull back so much and God's like, I don't want that either. I want you to use like Peter, that enthusiasm, that passion, but I want you to be my teammate, Nikki. I don't want you to leave me in the dust. I want to run forward with you. We need to harness that.
Like that's good, but
Hope Mangiafico (07:06)
Right, or yeah, or like Simon the Zealot. Like you think about it through this study, there were like easily four of the 12 disciples that he had to harness in to use in a redemptive way. And you know, you're speaking of your story and it makes me think about like that shame that's there when you start like, no, I disobey and it's like.
Nikki Humphrey (07:07)
That's where you go out.
Hope Mangiafico (07:30)
If we stay in that place of thinking we disobeyed, we're now, you've kind of already shared this earlier, but in a new light now, what part are we now locking away so he can't come and redeem it? Like this is why we can't sit in the yuck for very long. I recently came across a CS Lewis like snippet little video thing, and it was just like the enemy wins when we dwell on where we messed up. And it's like, that's the problem.
Like as soon as we realize, like Nikki says, you're like 850 million steps ahead, we could say, oh gosh, Lord, I'm so sorry. And instead of thinking about going step by step backwards, I think that's something I probably would have done. 850 steps, step one, two, three, all these things that I've left God behind on. We can just move forward in a redemptive way instead of locking him out, which I think we have a tendency to lock him out of our future.
Nikki Humphrey (08:28)
going back to Matthew's story and how he just invited Jesus to dinner with all.
all the not good people and Jesus goes. And that kind of convicted my heart. Like how many times have I judged people without sitting with them and hearing their story or like we talked about either last week or the week before, know, lead with curiosity and not condemnation. And that's something that convicted me that I still need to work on.
Hope Mangiafico (08:38)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. .
Nikki Humphrey (09:06)
to push in with that and not just immediately judge. Because like you
said in the episode, Hope, Jesus didn't come for the holier than holy. He came for the sick. He came for the people who needed him. And I'm just like, I need to do a better job of stepping into that.
Hope Mangiafico (09:27)
And I think Judas, the Iscariot is a good example of that too because we so quickly think he was so bad because he betrayed, but there was clearly something more Jesus saw without the judgment. And that's a really good reminder there too. Like, yes, Jesus with Matthew is a beautiful thing and so is Judas because there's just, there's something there.
where when you read that story, you tap into your human nature of just wanting to judge, thinking, how could he? Well, I don't know. Let me get in those shoes for a minute and see, you know, like it's just, all of them are a great reminder. Those two stories stick out to me of like really slowing down. It's like that, you know, slow to speak, quick to listen kind of thing. Cause speaking.
Nikki Humphrey (10:13)
Yeah.
Hope Mangiafico (10:16)
is like a form of judgment, right? We're often vocalizing our opinions on somebody.
Nikki Humphrey (10:19)
Yes,
for sure.
Hope Mangiafico (10:23)
That's a great reminder.
And actually, that leads me to like the last thing that kind of really stood out to me, what you were just saying. The beauty of our savior is that he treasures every yes no matter the size. And so like Nikki saying, okay, I need to, I do too, slow down and stop judging. That's the yes he loves. If you say like, I'm saying yes to,
Mm, putting down my passion about this political thing and I'm gonna start reading my Bible more. Mm, he loves that. Every size of a yes is important. Builds you up into your purpose and your calling and your childship They all matter.
Nikki Humphrey (11:12)
really does.
Hope Mangiafico (11:13)
And the conviction, let that be led with love or filled with love in your heart. That loving correction, we haven't used that word in a while, but Nikki would always call it a loving correction. Remember, that's what it is. There's no shame for the glory of God.
