Hope Mangiafico (00:00)
One thing that I couldn't quite get it out and I felt like it's like, Lord, I'm just not going to worry about it is,
You gave your really good example about the women and I find that a lot of women have a hard time forgiving themselves and one subject matter in particular are abortions.
Nikki Humphrey (00:25)
Well, that was my whole thing because I've been in a room, Hope, 40 women are wailing over the abortions that they had. And they carry that hurt. I mean, they wail when you talk about the women wailing, like it's this gut wrenching sound. It's like nothing you've ever
Hope Mangiafico (00:34)
Yeah.
Yes.
Nikki Humphrey (00:54)
heard before, but that's when it's so important to help these women or any woman who have gone through that recognize that like
That is not them. God forgives you for that. Some of these, these women were brought there by the people who were trafficking them and they were forced. It wasn't even a decision that they made, but it was something that they were, they were forced to do and they carry this around like, like God's going to judge them. He just wants you to go to him and your father will forgive you for that. I promise he will. I promise he will.
Hope Mangiafico (01:27)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (01:35)
But it's just what, I mean, some of these women were like in their 60s and 70s. Like it's not just right after. Some women have just been carrying it for 40, 50 years.
Hope Mangiafico (01:52)
I mean, can you imagine carrying that around?
Nikki Humphrey (01:57)
a lot.
a lot, but it's also a gift.
Hope Mangiafico (02:06)
If you let it be. ⁓
Nikki Humphrey (02:09)
It really is.
Hope Mangiafico (02:14)
Yeah, I just, don't know. That's the topic that was, or the subject matter that was on my mind. And I felt like there wasn't the right, I couldn't figure out the right thing to say, you know, to connect them with the father's heart for that.
And sometimes it is just like what you did with the women. It's like your tone of voice, the heart that you carry. They hear it differently in that moment, you know?
Nikki Humphrey (02:40)
Yeah,
it's just hugging on the women when they're crumpled up in a puddle on the floor and just getting down with them and whispering in the air like, he forgives you.
Hope Mangiafico (02:49)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (02:51)
Go to your father. Let him know how you're feeling. Process this with him.
Hope Mangiafico (02:59)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (03:00)
You've condemned yourself enough. You've punished yourself enough.
Hope Mangiafico (03:03)
that's
it. So that's the big thing is thinking it's what you deserve.
Nikki Humphrey (03:17)
But everybody deserves a second chance. And you see Jesus walking that out time and time again in the Bible. He didn't go to the religious people. He went to the broken. He went to the woman at the well. Like he went to all those people who made poor choices along the way. And he's like, come follow me.
Hope Mangiafico (03:24)
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
Yeah.
I know. It breaks my heart. That it's only him. That can change him.
Nikki Humphrey (03:59)
Yeah.
And I've also worked with men who, you know, they didn't have the abortion themselves, but the guilt that they feel too, when they have, you know, they're in a marriage and then they have a baby and then they realize like, this is what we ended. And then that guilt becomes overbearing. But again, that's the time to process it with your father, God. We can't.
Hope Mangiafico (04:20)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (04:28)
Process those things alone. We can't process those things with another earthly human. I mean, they can help, they can guide, they can give us the tools, the resources, the support, but you only find that freedom by walking that through with your father.
Hope Mangiafico (04:45)
Yeah, absolutely.
That's, and I guess at the end of the day, that's partly what I was taking away myself with talking about forgiveness is like, and I guess what I've tried to convey even in my own conversations with other people is like, it really isn't ⁓ horizontal. It's always a vertical transaction, that holy exchange that you reference so often. I know in previous episodes,
or a previous episode we talked about David being like, it's against you and you alone, Lord, that I've sinned. Like, it's just always this way. And then it somehow, by his amazing grace and mercy and love, the horizontal changes. But yeah, there's not a single person that can do it. They can just be vessels to point you back.
to the vertical.
Nikki Humphrey (05:48)
Right, and that's what makes me think about, you've referenced in the past, about the navel gazing by the looking down. And I've talked about this before, like the enemy always wants to keep us in this downward posture. And when we are not forgiving, we're holding unforgiveness in our heart, we're looking down at the person. We're in that downward posture, thinking that we are playing.
Hope Mangiafico (06:15)
Mm hmm.
Nikki Humphrey (06:17)
God with these people. And when we're not forgiving ourselves, we're looking down. We're only looking at ourself and the hurt and the circumstances in both those situations. God wants us to look up and be redeemed and feel his love, feel his light, feel his presence in us. And we can't do that if we keep looking in. We have to look above and
out.
not just focus on ourselves.
Hope Mangiafico (06:49)
Yeah. Sounds really elementary. But the way you just said that, it's the first time I've really thought about, because, you know, again, we've had an episode, I it's episode four, girl, get up. And we talked about that posture. But something that you just said that took it a step further for me is I want to carry a redemptive posture. Redemption is only up.
You know, and so it's like, want to carry this posture everywhere I go where it's not woe is me, I've got the weight of the world on top of when you were speaking, what I saw was like looking down on people like you were saying. And it's like, I want redemption, redemption always this lifting up posture. ⁓ And I never thought of it with that term redemption, but that is that is a redeeming posture.
Nikki Humphrey (07:27)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Hope Mangiafico (07:43)
and that literally things would fall right off your shoulders. Unlike this, everything literally is on your back. You're literally carrying everything on your back. I don't know. I'll be curious to see if I pay attention to my actual posture because I mean, I do, I am somewhat aware of it, but you know, especially when you're having a really hard time and your shoulders do just kind of roll in and you're just kind of.
Nikki Humphrey (08:08)
Yeah.
Hope Mangiafico (08:10)
barely making it through and God has grace for that. And he loves nonetheless, but boy, just that is a game changer.
Nikki Humphrey (08:22)
I noticed myself being more aware of it when I have to be in situations, especially throughout the summer where there are people that I had to extend forgiveness to and we were unable to have a conversation face to face, but I still see them. I'm just like, that's why I say when I'm bringing the whole kingdom of God, like I'm bringing the whole kingdom of God, my head is going to be up. I am going to, if I have an interaction with them, it's going to be okay. I am.
just keeping this upright posture. Because so often, you know, when we want to try to avoid something, what do we do? We look down and we like, not a walk, run, like this scurry shuffle.
Hope Mangiafico (08:59)
And it feels worse too.
And it doesn't feel good. Like, it's interesting because we've also talked about like his confidence, like carrying his confidence and it's being confident in who you are and him. And this just feels more like I can handle what comes my way and I am feels armored up.
Nikki Humphrey (09:27)
Right, I was just gonna say that I feel like I got the sword of the spirit. you ready? ⁓ Yeah.
Hope Mangiafico (09:29)
Yeah, you feel like it.
Interesting.
To be honest, I haven't put too much thought in that before, but I feel that. I shall change my posture.
Nikki Humphrey (09:37)
What?
