Hope Mangiafico (00:00)
Hi, I'm Hope.
Nikki Humphrey (00:01)
Hi, I'm Nikki. Welcome to Equip Fellowship, where friends become family through Christ. We're two Jesus loving friends on a mission to share personal stories, resources, and real talks about our triumphs, breakthroughs, struggles, and setbacks. Why? Because we believe you are called to live victoriously, and we are here to equip you with Holy Spirit led tools and strategies to strengthen your faith.
Transform your mindset and walk boldly in God's promises because here's the truth. You have been given great and precious promises by God. So grab your coffee, lean in and let's grow together. It's time to step into everything God has for you.
Hope Mangiafico (00:51)
And a big one to be able to do that is dealing with forgiveness.
reminds me of like, gosh, it might be pushing almost 10 years ago, close to it, maybe eight years ago. β And someone kept telling me, Hope, you really need to work on forgiveness. It's just forgiveness. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like they weren't even like specifying of like a certain situation, a certain person. It was just a generic forgiveness and how so much hinges in your life and other people's lives based off your heart towards forgiveness. And
Boy have I found that to be true.
Nikki Humphrey (01:29)
Mm-hmm. But who jumps for joy for forgiveness?
Hope Mangiafico (01:35)
Well, I will tell you something, my friend, because probably nobody, including us. But I will tell you that when the Lord put this on my heart and I did a quick little like deep dive, I actually got like fired up about what it meant, like in a deeper sense, because you've probably heard Nikki and the listeners have probably heard before, like, β the forgiveness frees you. It's not about the other person.
Nikki Humphrey (02:05)
Preach it, yes.
Hope Mangiafico (02:07)
It's like, I get it. Like I do understand that, but it's too.
Nikki Humphrey (02:11)
You do
feel it, the freedom after.
Hope Mangiafico (02:15)
But it's not
enough to get you to that point. So to your point, like you're not jumping for joy to do it. And you know, I've had conversations over the years, you know, with different people as I know you have as well. And one in particular that was really interesting and maybe it's what the Lord, you know, why the Lord led me to this today, I don't know. But I could tell there was a big misunderstanding of what forgiveness,
Nikki Humphrey (02:18)
No.
Hope Mangiafico (02:44)
and understanding looks like in a relationship. β And that a lot of times we think they're the same thing. Having the other person understand our perspective. β You know, like there's this hunger, this desire to be understood about our perspective and β that's not it.
Nikki Humphrey (03:08)
No, not even close.
Hope Mangiafico (03:11)
And of course when I'm on the, so if I'm on the receiving end of an I'm sorry for example, I can, you know, how do I say this? I can practice more what I preach, right? Because they're like extending forgiveness to me and I'm like, I don't need to understand, like I got it, but they're sitting there wanting me to understand and then you flip-flop it and it's me trying to like defend or whatever. And so anyway, it's an interesting topic. But like I said, from what I,
was doing a little bit and studying in the scriptures, I think we're going to have some really cool ah-has and breakthroughs that maybe bring us a little bit more to that point of being joy-filled about it.
Nikki Humphrey (03:55)
Yeah,
because sometimes you offer forgiveness and the person is so toxic. You could never pick up the phone or send them a message or let them know that they have been forgiven.
Hope Mangiafico (04:11)
So that's funny that you say that because in some of my notes I put what forgiveness may not look like is saying I'm sorry to the person, having a conversation to work things out, so conversing β in general, again being understood or having an ending that you were hoping for. You know, reconciliation is also another word that just came to mind like, and I don't know what that word actually technically means, but I think
Nikki Humphrey (04:18)
Yes.
Hope Mangiafico (04:40)
We have a beautiful, with a bow on top, definition of reconciling with someone means and it doesn't, it doesn't always look like we're expecting because of, because you can love someone. So let's talk about the person you're giving example of, right? Which I'm sure is just a generic example to be honest because we all have experienced that. It's like you love that person but you can see as you zoom out with your
with your eyes that have been, the veil's been lifted through the Holy Spirit, that they were toxic and really bad for you. So as much as you want your love to extend to them and help them and even transform them, β it will bring you down. It will bring them down because they can't hear it. So it's just gonna make the yuck get bigger in them, right? That's not what you were thinking.
Nikki Humphrey (05:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, for sure that that yuck pile getting bigger and then you've already had your talk with your the father God about forgiving this person and then you approach them and it almost hardened your heart all over again towards
Hope Mangiafico (05:52)
Hmm
approaching too soon
Nikki Humphrey (05:56)
Yes, by trying to have the in-person or the on the phone or through text message, know, extending them forgiveness. And sometimes, you know, just like boundaries are a gate, not a wall, forgiveness is also a gate, not a wall. Maybe there'll be some time in the future where you can approach them and have a conversation, but sometimes it's never possible. So I want people to know that you can still
forgive somebody completely, fully without sitting down face to face and having a conversation with them about it.
Hope Mangiafico (06:35)
And you know something that I think β can bring peace around that because I still think sometimes it's just that's still hard to hear, right? Because you're wanting this closure, reconciliation, or however you want to label it, β is something I found to be true. And I actually explained it to someone this way and they understood it.
was when, let's say you and I, I'm not speaking this over us, so I'm just gonna go ahead and put that first. You and I got a really big disagreement and five years passed, right? And we're okay, but we never really addressed that. And it was, we were in this disagreement because we had very different perspectives due to history. Let's just say it generically. Five years passed and I'm coming to you and I'm like, Nikki, I just...
I want you to understand this perspective that I had five years ago and just to understand it. Like know we're like fine now, but like we're not really, because we haven't had this conversation and this is all in my head, right? Like thinking that we're not fine because we haven't had this conversation. And what is interesting about that is we're now five years, hopefully more mature. We're no longer in that state. That was...
Makes me think about what you said in previous episodes about is this a big Nicky or a little Nicky problem? We were smaller, younger versions of ourselves then and sometimes what I have found to be true with this person I was conversing with, I can't really actually comprehend your perspective because you're trying to explain your perspective to a me that was back then. Does that make sense? Like,
Nikki Humphrey (08:13)
Yes, it
makes complete sense.
Hope Mangiafico (08:17)
Yeah, and so like it's almost pointless because you're, I'm trying to talk to a five-year younger Nikki and now this more mature Nikki, she's passed it. We didn't have the conversation, but if I try to do it, it's not like it's even possible for you to understand it because you're not the same person you were five years ago.
That was a huge like, aha, when God showed me that. And then I got to relay it to this person because that's a, it's actually a very good thing.
Nikki Humphrey (08:48)
Hmm?
Yeah. And when you know a person's heart and you grow in your faith and you grow your relationship with God and you dig into the word and you see forgiveness so many times in the Bible, all you really want, you don't need to get into the nitty gritty about like what happened and the why, just a person sincerely coming towards you and be like, hope, I am so sorry when I did that five years ago.
can't believe I did that. That was so immature of me or whatever happened. you know, I'm so sorry. Will you please forgive me? Like that's all you need. You don't need to like just going back and addressing trauma. You don't need to rehash every single detail or tip for tat exchange. It's just coming and
Hope Mangiafico (09:19)
Okay.
Nikki Humphrey (09:39)
being humble and honest about your feelings and be sincere in your apology and...
asking for forgiveness or extending forgiveness. It's not a forgiveness, comma, but. You know, like
Hope Mangiafico (09:52)
And not like, The good old butts. my gosh. Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (09:59)
with your spouse or whatever, you forgive them. And then like two years later in an argument, you're like, well, remember, and they're like, whoa, you already forgave me for that. It's not a weapon.
Hope Mangiafico (10:08)
Yeah. Or when you
put buts after anything. I heard this once, I can't tell you from where, but it's like, I'm sorry, but and so it disregards the first half of the sentence. I never forgot that. And it's like, so when I hear someone speaking and I hear a but I'm like, so I just in my mind, I see like a strike through.
Nikki Humphrey (10:18)
Yes! Yes!
Yes!
It's so good. It's totally a straight through.
Hope Mangiafico (10:34)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (10:34)
It's so insincere. It's wanting
to win instead of...
Hope Mangiafico (10:40)
That's interesting terminology. Wanting to win.
Huh.
And that goes back, I think we've said this on previous episodes of like, why I said it, I know, because I was giving an example of you and I and me comparing myself to you and I don't know which episode that was, but it's like, we're the same team. At the end of the day, it shouldn't be me versus you or spouse versus spouse because at the end of the day, we are the same team. And if we have that competitive win mentality,
We ultimately will never win because someone else is winning above us by creating that mentality, which is the enemy. He's the one winning in that situation. Which reminds me, I had, I hope I have this screenshot.
Nikki Humphrey (11:24)
Yes.
Hope Mangiafico (11:36)
Okay, this, this said really nicely too, something that showed up at church. We had a guest speaker at church this Sunday and I loved this so much. It's a quote from a name that I cannot say. Helmut, maybe it's Helmut. Helmut the Licky. I don't know. But it says, there is a dark, mysterious, spell-binding figure at work. Behind the temptation stands the tempter.
Behind the lie stands the liar. Behind the dead and bloodshed stands the murderer from the beginning. I was like, oh, that's so good. It's so good. It leads into this conversation today so well because that actually at the end of the day should be the heart behind our forgiveness is we're not each other's enemies. There is a liar.
a murderer from before the beginning when we were ever a thing that is still working, a spellbinding figure tricking people into doing stupid stuff, including ourselves, right? Like at any moment if we're not armored up and ready to go, battle ready and prayed up and in the scriptures, we can fall right back into that place.
Nikki Humphrey (12:59)
Yeah. I don't know if you remember in that hope, but last year when Josephine was having difficulty at school and I told you, I was praying for the people involved and I was praying against the spirit that was manifesting in them, not the person. Because I was telling Hope like, I know in my heart of hearts, that is not that person.
Hope Mangiafico (13:17)
and
Yes, so good.
Nikki Humphrey (13:28)
That person doesn't want to be that way and portray themselves in this manner or react to other people in this way. I want to send whatever is afflicting this person right straight back to the pit of hell. And I go, forgive what these people did to my daughter, which was really hard. Somebody wrong, somebody that you love so much. But I knew in my heart, it really wasn't.
Hope Mangiafico (13:48)
Hmm.
Nikki Humphrey (13:58)
them.
Hope Mangiafico (14:00)
Yes. Well, here's something cool about you sharing that story and us talking about the reality, the true reality where it's the natural and the supernatural combined, right? The physical and the spiritual, they meet. Is when I was looking up the definition of forgiveness in the Bible, I like to use Strong's Concordance. It's just fun to me. And sometimes I feel like Lord tells me just go to Google, but I felt like I was supposed to go to Strong's Concordance.
And this is so fascinating. In the Old Testament, there are two different words for forgiveness. One is person to person and the other is God to person. There are two different words, which is extremely weighty because we, with evolution of time and just, I don't know, generations and change of pop culture, whatever it may be,
Nikki Humphrey (14:40)
Mm-hmm.
Hope Mangiafico (14:57)
we forget the meaning of words and we then all of sudden start saying, well, forgiveness is just letting someone off the hook. Well, there we go. We completely messed up the definition, right? So when I was looking this up in the Old Testament, person to person, to forgive is H5 375. So when you go to Strong's Accordance, that's how you can find it. And I don't really know how to say it to be honest, but that's it. And I think it's like, nassau.
And it means to lift, to bear up, to carry, aka lift off the weight of the sin that they were carrying and lift off of them what they did. We are not the vindicator or the just judge. We have one just judge. So we must stop trying to pretend to be the person that can to make them. I would even say that
I don't think I naturally have this mentality, but if I sit with the Lord long enough, he'll show me the real colors of my heart, right? So like saying like, man, they need to get what they did. Like, what's the word I'm looking for? There's a saying for it. Get what they paid for? No.
Nikki Humphrey (16:08)
Like
justice.
Hope Mangiafico (16:12)
Just, there's a saying and it's like not coming out, I guess it doesn't matter. β But justice at the end of the day is that we can't be those people. We have to lift to bear up and to carry and to say, you, given the example that you did with Josephine to this person, I am forgiving you and taking that off of you so you can experience some freedom yourself and maybe no longer be bound by whatever spirit is working in you. That's what it is. Then God...
Because he is a just God and he is full of justice and he also has very, beyond my understanding, spiritual laws that he can't break. There will be something that will work out if they don't repent to who they sinned against, first and foremost, which is to God. They did sin against you and to Josephine, you know, they did. But what matters at end of the day is they repent to him and then he does his thing that he has to do, right?
to be that vindicator and that just judge. So I thought that was really interesting.
So, person to person is Nassau, Hebrews 5, 3, 7, 5. And a great example is Genesis 50, 17 through 21. And if you're not familiar with this story, Joseph's brothers, in simplistic terms, you can read it in Genesis, but they β
basically sell off Joseph out of jealousy, tell the father, oh, he died, and just on their merry way. And in the meantime, when they did that, Joseph ended up being able to be with the Pharaoh and the spam and hits. And lo and behold, God's taking care of Joseph despite what his brothers did. And now the brothers are like on death's doorstep because they need food. And who do they have to go to? They gotta go to the Pharaoh.
So it says, β
And now please forgive the transgression of the servants of the God of your father. Joseph wept when they spoke to him. His brothers also came and fell down before him and said, Behold, we are your servants. But Joseph said to them, Do not fear, for am I in the place of God? As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive as they are today. So do not fear.
I will provide for you and your little ones." Thus he comforted them and spoke kindly to them. I just love the way that ended. And it just shows like with the heart of the father extended to people that do you wrong. And I mean, that was a really yucky situation. You lift it off of them. You say, I am not God. It's okay. And you bring comfort and you know and trust.
Nikki Humphrey (19:12)
Mm-hmm.
Hope Mangiafico (19:18)
that God is working everything out. And I think this is an incredible example and to be a reminder that also when you let God work on your heart, when you feel that you've been wronged by someone.
the person that wronged you, the enemy used to wrong you, they will one way or another realize what they did. And you just continue to walk out your relationship with the Father and you see what he does, see what he did for Joseph. And he was able to comfort and speak kindly to those that wronged him. And I think that is a beautiful
display of what it means to forgive a person-to-person perspective.
Now here's the wild thing in the Old Testament. God to person is H5545 or Hebrew 5545 in Armstrong's and it's salah, not like a, it might be salah, I don't know. It's not like peace, but it's actual to pardon.
We always think that forgiveness from person to person is pardoning them for their sin and what they did. And that's why people withhold forgiveness, as they think they're pardoning them. And that means if we believe that, we think we're having to play God.
All we're supposed to do is lift the burden off their back, which is actually scripture in general, know, carry each other burdens, like all of that is, it's found throughout the Bible. But to pardon, that is only God to the person.
And this is in numbers 30. There is a couple places in numbers 35 through 12. And I thought it was just really, really fascinating because in English translation, they look like the same word, but they're not. So numbers 30, 5 through 12.
It's talking about a woman and her vows says, β
she has bound herself shall stand. But if on the day that her husband comes to hear of it, he opposes her, then he makes void her vow that was on her, and the thoughtless utterances of her lips by which she bound herself, and the Lord will forgive her." And it's multiple times throughout this where it says, the Lord will forgive her. The Lord will forgive her. The Lord is the only one that pardons someone. We do not.
I thought that was so fascinating. And in the New Testament, in Greek, it's G863, and I really can't say this one, it's like F for me or something, but it means to send away, to let go, or to expire. And I was like, in my mind, I'm like, AKA, to release, which is similar to lifting it off of them. And as you lift it off them, it lifts off you, which goes back to the beginning of this podcast where it's like,
It frees you! Well, it's because that's how it works. It's like the saying, like, all ships rise together, right? Kind of thing. That's why it frees you.
And in Matthew 6, there's the Lord's Prayer, which a lot of people are familiar with, right? Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Forgive us our debts as we forgive those that, I hate, I have a big trouble with the debt one. Forgive those that trespass against us. So funny. Do you say trespasses or debts?
Nikki Humphrey (23:39)
Trespasses.
Hope Mangiafico (23:40)
Yeah, this weekend we were doing something in the Lord's Prayer and he was like, we're going to read it for the debtors even though most of us say trespasses. And it's like, I'm trying to say it I can't say it, but basically, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us. And so in Matthew 612, which is Jesus saying these things, forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. Scripture says in Hebrews,
8 13 that God remembers our sins no more. So he's already done that part of forgiving. Now it's on us to meet him in that. It says he forgets as far as the east is from the west. And all this hinges on will we forgive? Not will we pardon, but will we lift that burden off of them?
Nikki Humphrey (24:36)
And I just keep thinking about the person, Hope, who's listening or watching this. They're just like, but you don't know what was done to me. That is unforgivable.
Hope Mangiafico (24:44)
Yes.
Nikki Humphrey (24:46)
And before you respond to that, I just want to let everybody know that I have forgiven people for some truly unforgivable things. Like things that happened to me that wounded me to the core.
Hope Mangiafico (24:54)
Mm.
Nikki Humphrey (25:02)
and it doesn't mean it's easy and it doesn't mean it didn't take 40 years from the incident to extend that forgiveness.
Hope Mangiafico (25:04)
you
Nikki Humphrey (25:15)
But it's hard and it's worth it. There's still a little part of me when I think back to what people have done to me and I'm just how can you ever do that to a person? But like you just said Hope, that's not for me to pardon, you know, if that's not me, I'm not the ultimate judge, but by forgiving,
Hope Mangiafico (25:35)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (25:43)
those people what they've done to me. I don't, like you just said, I no longer carry that burden around with me.
Hope Mangiafico (25:53)
Yeah. And that's all I keep thinking of is when you said you can hear someone saying, you don't know what happened to me and you share your story is we come from, can call it a victim mentality, but I still believe it's that.
Nikki Humphrey (25:55)
I'm no longer a victim to what happened to me.
Hope Mangiafico (26:10)
misunderstanding what forgiveness is. And that's why I emphasize the difference in the meanings in the Old Testament. Yeah, I know it's the Old Testament. I know that's Hebrew, right? And we are English speaking. But that's a really big deal. That scripture points it out. Like we can hear all day long what people tell us, but it's in the scriptures that only He pardons. And if we are thinking that that's on us and our responsibility,
We will find ourselves continuing to hurt in ways that we were not meant to be hurting. And to your point, Nikki, you can carry it for years and years and years. It is a process. It's yet another onion, right? β It really is. But don't, I guess my thought is don't cause it to be more intense than it needs to be. God understands it's a process. β And to have
desire to want to lift up that person. Some people it seems to snap a little bit more quickly and snap into place, but just be careful of making yourself suffer longer because of your confusion of what it means.
Because that's all I could think of when you said that, Nikki, was that comes from a thought of your pardoning what they did.
Nikki Humphrey (27:32)
Right. And I was almost going to go through what I had to forgive people for, but I don't want it to be a checklist. I don't want people to compare their experience to what I went through. So if you are watching this and want to know a little bit more about what I walked through, then we can have an offline conversation about that for sure. But I don't want it to be like, well, Nikki's situation was this, mine's a little bit different or hope went through this.
Hope Mangiafico (27:43)
Yeah. β
Nikki Humphrey (28:01)
And it's kind of the same, but not really, because we understand when you are carrying whatever it is around, that it becomes so intensely personal that sometimes you think you're the exception to the rule.
Hope Mangiafico (28:18)
I've done that so many times. So many times and I couldn't agree more with treading lightly on what is shared β because I believe if someone really wants to know they'll reach out and then too, β Holy Spirit can work without us giving the examples. β
the checklist I could feel that to my core. β And that's feeding, it's like what we've said in previous episodes too, of like feeding the wrong thing, right? Feeding the beast. That was like way in like episode one. β Feeding the wrong thing.
Nikki Humphrey (28:59)
Mm-hmm.
Hope Mangiafico (29:00)
We want to see you set free.
Nikki Humphrey (29:02)
Yeah, and I think we all know a person or maybe even us in certain circumstances, they are holding on to things that happened 20, 30 years ago. And we might've been there when that event happened and we saw the wrong happen to that person. And that person just stayed the same, but we have grown with our faith in God and we can see like, yeah, it seemed like such a big deal back then.
Hope Mangiafico (29:29)
Yeah. Well, okay, so.
Nikki Humphrey (29:31)
But right now, is it even worth it? Is it even worth still holding the grudge? Maybe it's about something monetarily or like something that somebody said to you, like, does that really even matter anymore? Look at your lifestyle. look at, yeah. But again,
not just this person's experience, but sometimes you have to reevaluate why you're still holding on to that unforgiveness.
Hope Mangiafico (29:53)
No.
Well, when you're using the word grudge reminds me a couple of months ago or something. I was talking to someone and we were talking about something that happened to me. And they're like, you know, sometimes hope, I think it's just good to hold on to a grudge because it protects you. And I'm like, I understand that mentality. And I'm like, that's the problem β is you may think that that's protecting you and maybe
A better term is a boundary. You create a boundary to protect you. It's that gate. And you then don't put yourself in that situation again. But holding a grudge or still holding on to unforgiveness will block everything in your life that is good. becomes a, a grudge becomes a closed gate that you can't have for a-
Nikki Humphrey (30:52)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Hope Mangiafico (30:59)
break out of. And so we want to be careful of having unforgiveness as a way to protect ourselves.
all in the name of a grudge. Because that's kind of what grudges are, huh?
Nikki Humphrey (31:14)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Hope Mangiafico (31:16)
Now here's something that kind of came to me when I was taking notes and I'd be curious to know what you think. I put a little stuff down here, but how would you say you know you forgave somebody? And I've heard in different Christian realms, people be like, well, I forgave this person, but I can tell. Like it's not a but like a, you know, like a rude but like make an excuse. You're like, I really think I forgave them.
but it seems something else is stirring, right? And so it's almost that confusion of like, but did I really?
Nikki Humphrey (31:53)
Mm-hmm.
Hope Mangiafico (31:54)
So what's your experience or thoughts?
Nikki Humphrey (31:58)
So my process, how I know that I've truly forgiven somebody is working through it with my father, God. β I talked about it in a couple of episodes back where I have to find the root of why I'm still holding on to this resentment or anger or why I'm not extending forgiveness to somebody. And if God reveals the root of like, why that was so...
Hope Mangiafico (32:21)
.
Nikki Humphrey (32:26)
hurtful to me or why I feel like I can't forgive that person. And again, is this a little Nicky issue or is this a big Nicky issue? Is this a wounding from your childhood or is this something you're dealing with for the first time as
an adult and just processing with the father like, okay, this person did this to me and I'm so upset and I'm so, and I'm just like sometimes even
You I've talked about recently having some struggles with some people and I was just like, old Nikki would have put hands on this person. I'm not saying that that's right, but that's how I used to solve old problems. Like you hurt me. Like I am going to hurt you physically. I'm period. End of story. That is not right at all. But processing, why
Hope Mangiafico (33:02)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (33:11)
am I going from like zero to 100 with my feelings? Like, why am I still carrying on this anger and frustration, hurt day after day after day? That's an indicator to me that I need to forgive.
a person if I'm just carrying it around and it's coming up and I'm walking with my husband and every day we go for a walk I'm like, can you believe that? I'm like rehashing the same scene over and over and over and again. And that's the tactic of the enemy. He wants to distract you from everything else going on in your life and hyper-focus on this one event or a series of events that a person did to you that was wrong and you're trying to justify it by saying it over and over.
Hope Mangiafico (33:44)
Okay.
Nikki Humphrey (33:53)
and like look at my side and twist it a little bit. So I know when I extend forgiveness is when I sit down here with God, hash it out with him,
come to the root of it and give it over to him. Like, God, this situation is completely controlling my life. Like I give it to you. I know that this person to treat me this way must be going through something. There is something happening in their life that I have no idea.
Hope Mangiafico (34:05)
You
Nikki Humphrey (34:21)
what is going on, only you do that. And I know this person.
is using me as a target and I don't know why and I don't have to understand why God but I am releasing it to you and I'm not going to harbor these feelings this this time this repetitive thoughts over this person anymore and I give it all to God and when I do that nine out of ten times like it's erased it's like God just like it puts a whiteboard he just puts his arm
across it and smudges the whole thing. It's not at the forefront of my mind anymore. I'm not obsessing about it anymore. I'm not trying to convince people anymore to take my side over the other person. It's just, it's not an issue.
Hope Mangiafico (35:08)
You.
I love that, that β your one example just like hit all the points that I had in different words and so like I felt like it will feel like peace, right? It brings that settling in you. β Like you said, it's no longer at the forefront of your mind controlling you and so you have peace around it. β
I put like internal healing for you and the other person. And I think it's healing both ways because there's no hostility there anymore. But rather what I'm hearing from you, Nikki, the way you said it so eloquently is God's love for them is being extended and love for them. God's love for them doesn't mean you have to like them. It doesn't mean you have to get along, but it's, even letting them back in your life.
Those aren't the same thing. It's his love and letting it flow through you to heal both of you for whatever reasons that the God wants to move and how he wants to move. And the last thing, which I was curious if you remember this. Do you remember, I don't know why I remember this so vividly. We've talked about the 60-day challenge on here before. I think this example of the 60-day challenge was when we first started.
with the audio listening examples, okay, which we've talked about before of how we started with that and we were freaking out because we didn't have them all and then we're like, wait, we got this and we run with it. But it gave the example of this, when you close your eyes and you picture a person, what's your gut reaction? Do you smile? Do you get angry? Does your tummy turn? And that example they gave was like an old coworker that was like in construction or something. They would see the face and the hard hat and they would just get all like riled up.
And that's how you know, like honestly, to get that stirring, that's how you know, β man, there's still something here.
And the 60 day challenge, remember doing my own walkthroughs with that and it was really cool to like, again, let's pretend it's a hard hat coworker and it started and it's like, okay, guys, so that's clearly going back to our previous episode about navigating emotions. That's clearly I'm feeling anger. So Lord.
help me release this anger, how do I do that, what do I do, right? Do I just forgive them or do I need to, as you gave in that same β episode, I believe it was episode 14, navigating emotions, β do that pinprick of light to let go or even a pinprick into the balloon to let the air out. That's more the example you gave. β Like what is it? And then you close your eyes, picture them again.
Maybe you still have a little working up, but it's less intense. And that goes back to it being like an onion and it's very layered. Especially if it wasn't one time your coworker tripped ya on purpose, you know? It was like every day, you know? It's not always a one and done, but it's are you willing?
Nikki Humphrey (38:29)
Right. And
especially when you still have to interact with the people around you.
Hope Mangiafico (38:34)
That's the hardest. That's the hardest. Yeah, that actually is extremely challenging. And so that's continual. So again, not one and done continual, making sure that you have God at the forefront of your mind. And if a moment slips and you interact and you like respond in a way you don't want to, you go back to him, walk through it with him. Yeah, that's a tough one.
Nikki Humphrey (38:37)
That is the hardest.
Yeah, even my most recent example, I'm still around this person all the time. And I heard on another podcast, maybe it was the deep end, but they said, when you go into challenging situations, you just imagine that you're just bringing the whole kingdom of God with you when you walk through the doorway or walk into the.
person's presence, like I am bringing every resource, every tool, everything that God wants to give me for this situation. He's going to armor me up with it and I'm going to go into this situation with everything available to me and at my disposal. And that helps me. Doesn't mean I interact with this person. Doesn't mean I go by them. But it's just like, if we do have an interaction, I want it to be a God ordained.
interaction. I don't want it to be an earthly little Nicky interaction with them.
Hope Mangiafico (39:59)
Yes, that's the other thing sometimes I think forcing something out of time or out of season β can can make it a little
non-God ordained and can make it a little more murky for sure. And you know, as you were saying that thing that came to mind was one other role that we have besides like, okay, our role is coming forth with the whole kingdom of God in us and making sure it's a God ordained interaction is if we
If we're entering into this episode and you're listening as a listener and you're like, man, I had the definition of forgiveness wrong or misinterpretation, β been holding onto it, our other responsibility is repenting for trying to be God if we really were holding on to thinking it was excusing them for their actions. β We have to repent for that. And it's needing to repent because we were withholding his love from others.
Nikki Humphrey (41:01)
Hmm.
Hope Mangiafico (41:10)
And β every example you've given, Nikki, to me has been a good illustration of wanting his love, you be the vessel of his love, and trusting him enough that he's gonna take care of you even if you're still interacting with that person. You're trusting him and understanding that. I think...
withholding his love from others is often the fruit of actually not receiving forgiveness for ourselves β from the Father. And that was a topic that as we've been talking, been brewing in me that I wanted to make sure before we wrapped up, like we at least hit on for, to some degree about forgiveness of self because that may at the end of the day be one of the
biggest hindrances and it may not even be relevant to the topic in which the subject matter between you and another person, but you're withholding that forgiveness, that lifting up the burden off of them because you're carrying burdens that you were never supposed to carry because you will not forgive yourself for something.
Nikki Humphrey (42:24)
Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. It reminds me, used to work in a, I was volunteering at a women's shelter and the things that these women have gone through and the things, the choices that they may have made under duress and that they feel like these things that they did, the choices they made is unforgivable.
but I would go in there and wrap my arms around these women and just be like, God will forgive everything. Like you don't have to hold onto it anymore. I know that you said that you did X, Y, Z, but that's when you sit down with your father and he will forgive you for anything. He will not hold it against you. He will, I promise you, a thousand million percent.
that anything that you have done, any choice that you may have made, any wrong that you may have done, go to the Father because He will forgive you. And like Hope said earlier in this episode, when He extends forgiveness, He wipes it clean. Like
Hope Mangiafico (43:36)
Yeah.
Nikki Humphrey (43:38)
that whiteboard example I gave, He just wipes it completely clean. He leaves no residue on you from where...
that thing that you are holding onto is he will fill it with his love, his grace, his compassion.
Hope Mangiafico (43:56)
And that just to actually have a scripture reference for that, it's Psalms 10312, as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our
transgressions from us. God's mercy is the cause, the removal of sin is the result.
And I feel that, I feel that, I mean, Nikki, you and I have had so many, not so many recordings, I don't know, it's not been that many, but we have themes in all of our episodes. And one that has been pretty consistent is speaking of our identity in Christ and that we are not our past or our actions. And I mean, that was why we cleared the air right out of the gate and what.
our first episodes, right? Episode one β is clearing the air. And I pray that if someone has been listening to all of our episodes and now they're on this one and they still haven't quite grasped the concept and idea that they are not their past actions.
I pray that this is the episode that you see that breakthrough, that you see Psalm 10312 come to light as far as the east is from the west. So far has He removed our transgressions from us. to remind yourself of that quote I had in the beginning, that there is a dark, mysterious cell-binding figure at work behind the temptation that maybe you fell into. There was a tempter. That's not you.
Nikki Humphrey (45:03)
Yeah.
Hope Mangiafico (45:33)
And behind the lie or lies you may have been saying or given even up until this, I don't know, yesterday, five minutes ago, there's actually a liar. You are not the liar. And behind the dead and the bloodshed of the world that we see and perhaps it's something that you've witnessed yourself, there stands the murderer from the beginning of time.
None of your past actions are you. You may have been influenced, like we've talked about Judas in the past, or even Peter chopping the ear off of one of the guards. Jesus knew that that wasn't them. And by Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, the Holy Spirit is sent to remind you constantly.
that just as much as these things are not you, the people that have hurt you are not them either. The things they did.
We have a savior that redeems all of these things. And when we let him work with his love flowing out of us, the world will change. And we can be that vessel if we're willing to, again, going back to the Lord's prayer, forgive those that trespass against us the way that God forgives us. We have a part to play. Will we forgive others and ourselves?
Nikki Humphrey (47:02)
good. I think that'll do it.
Hope Mangiafico (47:04)
Yeah,
I do too. I do too.
Nikki Humphrey (47:10)
So if any of you listening or watching are struggling with forgiveness and you know somebody that might be struggling with this topic also, send them this episode. Give them encouragement that there is freedom found in forgiveness. And if any of you out there listening or watching are struggling particularly in this area and you have questions for us or wanna know more, please reach out.
Hope Mangiafico (47:38)
Until next time, take care.
