17 Guilt vs Shame

In this conversation, Nikki and Hope explore the critical differences between guilt and shame, emphasizing how guilt can be a constructive force when it leads us back to God, while shame is often a weapon used by the enemy to keep us in bondage. They discuss the spiritual implications of both emotions, the tactics of the enemy, and the importance of understanding one's identity in Christ. The episode encourages listeners to embrace their true identity, recognize the value of guilt as a prompt for growth, and seek healing from shame through God's word and community support. Watch full video version here: https://youtu.be/WaOSXaJ0_rY

Episode Transcript

Nikki Humphrey (00:00)
Hi, I'm Nikki.

Hope Mangiafico (00:01)
Hi, I'm Hope. Welcome to Equipped Fellowship, where friends become family through Christ. We're two Jesus-loving friends on a mission to share personal stories, resources, and real talk about our triumphs, breakthroughs, struggles, and setbacks. Why? Because we believe that you are called to live victoriously, and we're here to equip you with Holy Spirit-led tools and strategies to strengthen your faith, transform your mindset, and walk boldly in God's promises. Because here's the truth.

You have been given great and precious promises by God. So grab your coffee, lean in, and let's grow together. It's time to step into everything God has for you.

Nikki Humphrey (00:42)
Yes, I am so excited by this topic today because it was, I was just telling Hope when I was walking the other day, it just flooded over me because a lot of times in our episodes, we talk about guilt and shame. And as I was processing through my walk, I'm like, guilt and shame are two different things. And for many years of my life, I used to confide

used them. I used to use them interchangeably. I used to think that they were both part of my identity, but the truth is they're not. They're two separate things all together. So today we are going to help walk you through what the difference between guilt and shame is and how they can be weaponized against us to block us from our connecting to God our Father.

Hope Mangiafico (01:36)
Yeah, and I mean, right before hitting record, mean, I was telling Nikki, I don't have much to share. And I'm quickly realizing that I still might have some confusion here myself. So it'll be a really interesting conversation. And just by you,

bringing to light that you felt like, Lord, put this on your heart to talk about, because we do talk about it a lot, that I almost always put the two words together, you know? It's just like this coupling that happens. And I felt like Lord was like, hope it is because they can be in the same family depending on the root, right? But there's this beauty that I believe you're gonna reveal to us today, and I'm really excited about it.

Nikki Humphrey (02:15)
Yeah.

Again, as we talk through this, it's simple. It's not easy. The definitions are really simple. Guilt says, I did something wrong. It's a behavior based on doing something specific. When you do something specific, then you feel guilt. Shame says, there's something inherently wrong with me. Shame is identity based.

Hope Mangiafico (02:21)
Right.

Nikki Humphrey (02:45)
It usually feels vague, heavy and rooted in worthlessness. So if you've ever felt that worthlessness, if you've ever felt that you are never enough, that is shame. Guilt says, that was a mistake. I made a mistake. Shame says, I am the mistake.

Hope Mangiafico (03:01)
Mm.

Nikki Humphrey (03:08)
So before we started talking, Hope started talking about the roots of guilt. And I'm like, it's almost the shame is where the roots lie. It's shame is where the enemy's playground is.

And guilt, we'll get more into this later into the episode, but guilt is almost that prompting from the Holy Spirit, that soft correction from God. Be like, hey, hey, think about what you just did. Now you have a choice of what you want to do.

keep continuing on that path or course correct.

Hope Mangiafico (03:43)
Right, which when you briefly shared that with me, was like, I don't really like that. I like the word conviction, but it.

As we had that, it was such a brief conversation, Nikki, but as we had that conversation, it's like, I was talking about misplaced guilt, which you're like, well, hope that's still got a root of shame. It's like, well, dang. So it's really interesting.

Nikki Humphrey (04:03)
But as we are, our feelings episode, we talked about every feeling that comes up has a root. So guilt is a feeling. So it has to have a root. And so the root of guilt would be shame.

Hope Mangiafico (04:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that makes sense. And what you said when you were defining that really stood out to me that I wanted to comment on because I was like, dang, that's so true, is how vague shame is. It's just like you were like, you can't quite pinpoint it, but you just carry it around and you're like, I don't know, it's just me. Right? Yeah. And when you describe it, like I see it as being this veil hiding your true identity of who you are.

Nikki Humphrey (04:45)
Hmm?

Hope Mangiafico (04:46)
So yeah, I really liked that, like using the word vague to describe shame. Because guilt is more precise and you know why you're feeling guilty. You know that it's because you spoke poorly to this person or you lied here or whatever. You know that you know that you know.

Nikki Humphrey (05:01)
Right,

absolutely, absolutely. And there's a choice in guilt, whether how you perceive, like I said, you have choices with guilt. Shame, it's just always on you. Like you said, that veil or that cloak.

Hope Mangiafico (05:04)
Very good.

Hmm.

Mm.

That's really, that's, that's really good. Yeah. So I'm like, keep getting these images, but I see guilt like, ⁓ it's constantly moving because it's based on your choices and your actions. Whereas, shame, is just there all the time. So yeah, it's like, I don't know, I can't really put it into words, but it's really in my mind's eye. Like the imagery is so strong in the separation of them, which is very helpful.

when you feel stuck or you are carrying, well, I won't keep speaking at the moment. ⁓ I think this will come up later depending on what you share. So I'm gonna pause there.

Nikki Humphrey (06:01)
It's the perfect segue into how Satan uses shame to keep us stuck. Because when we have that veil, we'll just call it the veil of shame. When that is, it's almost, ⁓ I'm feeling like it's almost put on us. And when the veil of shame is put upon us, it opens that door for Satan to come in. So there is spiritual warfare, I believe, behind shame.

Hope Mangiafico (06:06)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah, seriously!

Nikki Humphrey (06:29)
because shame isn't just a feeling, it's a tactic of the enemy. Revelation 12.10 says, Satan, the accuser of the brethren, his goal isn't just to remind you about what you've done wrong, it's to convince you that you are wrong, that you are beyond repair, that you are unwanted by God, that you are unlovable.

So I broke it down this way. This is how the enemy uses Shane. He rewinds your worst moment, like a highlight reel, whispering, you'll never change. Remember when you did that? He brings back everything that choice that you made that went against God or other people or made you feel guilty. He just keeps it on a constant loop.

Hope Mangiafico (07:09)
.

Nikki Humphrey (07:29)
Two, he attaches lies to your identity, which we've talked about before. You're

not lovable. You're not good enough. You're disgusting. You're unqualified. So we rewind your worst moment. He attaches lies to your identity. Three, he isolates you. This is a tactic that the enemy uses all the time with me. He isolates you by convincing you

that you're the only one who struggles with this. How many times has the enemy convinced you in that shame veil that nobody would understand? You're the only one that goes through this. Everybody else has it all together, right?

Hope Mangiafico (07:59)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Or when

God tries to like bring someone in your life you're like, yeah, but mine's a little different

Nikki Humphrey (08:18)
That's right. Yeah. So he got reminds you of your worst moment ⁓ attacks your identity. He isolates you and number four, he distorts God's voice. So you hear condemnation instead of God's love and grace. That's where I got stuck for a long time. And I mentioned a little bit about my story in previous episodes. I thought that God needed me. I thought that

Hope Mangiafico (08:21)
you

Nikki Humphrey (08:47)
God didn't love me anymore. I thought that God broke relationship from me. And when I was isolated and when I didn't accept my God given identity and when that loop of my worst moments kept coming up again and again and again, I couldn't hear God's voice. I completely blocked it because I was hearing the enemy's voice louder than I was hearing God's voice.

Hope Mangiafico (08:58)
Right.

Nikki Humphrey (09:17)
And if the enemy can keep you stuck in shame, it doesn't steal just your salvation. It keeps you two way down to walk in your purpose.

Hope Mangiafico (09:30)
That is the truth. That is the truth.

Nikki Humphrey (09:35)
And we've talked about all these topics in previous episodes, and we've kind of lumped guilt and shame together by just saying guilt and shame and condemnation. I say that a lot, but we really wanted to define it for you because it is so different. And Romans 8.1 declares, is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And John 8.36 says, if the sun sets you free, you are free indeed.

You are not the names shame gives you. You are who God says you are.

Hope Mangiafico (10:14)
Amen. So.

thinking through the three, the guilt, shame and condemnation. And it's interesting though that we do lump them together when this is, this is like me thinking through this, when I see how guilt is used to the Holy Spirit through conviction. what do you think is the reason we lump the

shame, guilt, and condemnation together because we know condemnation is of the enemy. We know shame is of the enemy. And then this guilt is like this like, it's just an interesting one. So why do think we have them all together?

Nikki Humphrey (10:58)
think I... I know when I say it a lot.

I'm not trying to lump them together purposely. I'm just saying them to like, just say like, are not guilt, we're not shame, we're not combination. But I think if you're just listening to what we're saying, it's just naming things. But that's why I wanted to backtrack, back the train up and just be like, this is what these words mean.

Hope Mangiafico (11:18)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Nikki Humphrey (11:35)
But as a person, like I used to lump them together because they're all negative feelings.

Hope Mangiafico (11:40)
Right. And that's yeah, that's probably that's probably it. Yeah.

Nikki Humphrey (11:43)
They all make me feel icky. So when you sat in the pit of dysfunction for a long time, like I did, everything we talked about the murky middle, everything becomes murky. So it's hard to distinguish these things and what they really are because you just feel stuck. You feel like a victim and it's hard work to sit in that dysfunction and be like, okay, this here is guilt.

Hope Mangiafico (11:46)
Yeah.

Hmm

Nikki Humphrey (12:14)
This is shame and this is condemnation. So I think that's why we as people just kind of lump them all together.

Hope Mangiafico (12:20)
Yeah, no, you're probably right that would that would make sense and it's probably why I ran away from the word guilt and I just talk about conviction

I mean, it's the truth. But I really appreciate too in defining shame how, okay, so you have guilt over here that I like I talked about it's almost like in my mind I'm calling it a moving target, but I don't think that's necessarily appropriate term, but it's like I see different dots being like your different choices. Whereas shame hyper focuses on one of those dots and it's that one choice that made you unlovable, unforgivable.

Nikki Humphrey (12:56)
Mm-hmm.

Hope Mangiafico (13:01)
on everything, right? It's what makes you bad and yucky and like the evil one. And you know what's really interesting is we're calling it the veil of shame. And instantly, you know, I see like a wedding veil and it's like, you've become married to, yeah, you do too. You become married to that identity and that's why it keeps you stuck. And that's also why, and I mean, I can preach on this myself because part of my journey, why,

the idea of guilt, right? Because it's like I still associate it with that marriage bond, covenant of shame.

You became married to it.

Nikki Humphrey (13:44)
I saw the same veil, maybe not the same exact one, but I saw a wedding veil also. And Satan likes to keep us covered. He likes to keep our focus down. talked, hope it's talked about navel gazing in the past. And God, our father, just like at a wedding ceremony, a lot of times the father takes the veil and flings it backwards. It uncovers your face.

Hope Mangiafico (13:45)
Yeah.

Mmm.

⁓ that's so beautiful!

Nikki Humphrey (14:15)
And God's like, hello, my love, I'm right here. You're so precious to me. You don't need to wear this anymore.

Hope Mangiafico (14:15)
so.

Mm, that's so good. Wow, that's so, so good. And you know, ⁓ one thing I've learned too is like ⁓ with shame and misplaced guilt, ultimately has the root of shame is

You quoted scripture talking about like Satan is the accuser of the brethren. So it's like a spirit of accusation. And I remember hearing that term spirit of accusation about a year or so ago. And I was like, ooh, I feel that. Like even when this is a slight off topic and so we're not going down this road, but like when you notice you're judging someone, right? Ooh, spirit of accusation. I'm accusing them of something that what do I know, right? I know nothing.

And it's really helpful to remember that scripture that he is the accuser of the brethren. So expect things to feel icky and expect to be accused because that's his day job. And it's not a nine to five job. It's a 24, seven, three, six, five job.

Nikki Humphrey (15:31)
Yeah, he's working overtime to keep us stuck.

Hope Mangiafico (15:34)
Yeah.

crazy. And I will say and Nikki, you have more experience than I do with this, I'm sure just because of your life coaching and everything. From a few conversations I've had and again, personal journey, shame is one of those that is the hardest to let the father lift up and expose you to or like expose you to the world. You know, it's like you're carrying that red scarlet, you know, red scarlet.

everywhere you go and you're terrified. Because you think, guess, once the father lifts the veil, that scarlet letter is what the world sees. When in reality, if you would let him lift the veil of who you are, you will glow. And I see the pure white of the gown being seen, right? ⁓ That's what's seen. It's not the tiny little letter that you've been wearing. That's nothing. It's just what you've been focusing on.

Nikki Humphrey (16:41)
and it is so hard to.

I want to call it deprogram from shame. and I have had a lot of technology issues. So I just, I feel like I'm just laughing because we've had a lot of technology errors, but I feel like the enemy almost downloads this virus, the shame virus into our body and it takes over every part of our being. even though God lifts the veil, even though

our shame wound is exposed, we still have to take the virus out of our body. We need to get out that programming so God's programming can just take over all over our body. And I think that's why it's hard because it is a process of healing. Doesn't mean it can't happen spontaneously because those things do happen, but usually when there is a wounding,

It takes work to dig it out, to get everything that's not supposed to be in there out and let God's goodness flow through you.

Hope Mangiafico (17:55)
So here's a question for you. Shame, we're talking about it. And then when I gave a little snippet earlier, I talked about that hyper focusing making you unforgivable or unlovable. So I've had conversations with people about like, okay, they understand now, right? Like, okay, the Lord forgives them. And this is kind of opening another can of worms, but it's shown up in conversation about shame.

They understand his love, his forgiveness, but they can never forgive themselves. They believe they can never forgive themselves. And that's an interesting thing, which I guess is at the end of the day, truly rooted and still not encountering the depths of the father's love. You know, ⁓ and that does break my heart to know that like we are still, we'll call it the programming.

Due to the programming, we still see ourselves as our own enemy, when in reality, it's the enemy making you believe that the one enemy that we have, you are not the enemy.

and believe in believing that to the core of who you are. Because that's really where the, I'm like getting downloads, but I'm like, Lord, this isn't making sense coming out of my mouth. ⁓ Through that identity, you became one with shame. It gave the enemy that programming ability to make you believe that you are the problem, that you are unforgivable and all of these things. And so then you do become

this enemy against yourself because the programming's inside of you. So you think it's you against you, but it's not. And so as Nikki shared what she has shared so far, which I'm sure has been minimal in the grand scheme of everything she has to share, just want to speak out. And if anyone wants to like agree with me, speak out against.

coming into agreement with that spirit of accusation and saying no more to that covenant that was made in that identity with shame because you are not the enemy. And I just declare it out loud that I am not the enemy. And you say it out loud yourself and we say no more in the name of Jesus. Today is the day that we start to believe that the reprogramming is happening through the blood of Jesus.

and we see yet another layer of our identity in Christ. In Jesus' name.

Nikki Humphrey (20:37)
And as you are speaking, I grabbed my Bible because this is the depro programming manual.

Hope Mangiafico (20:43)
Mmm.

Nikki Humphrey (20:46)
This is the truth about what God says about us. He says we are fearfully and wonderfully made. We are made in His image. Everything, every good thing that God has to say about us is in here. And that's the truth. So as you were talking, Hope, and people have that disconnection and I have that disconnection too. Like I know God forgives me, but I can't forgive myself.

Hope Mangiafico (20:54)
You too.

Nikki Humphrey (21:16)
That programming didn't start getting out of my body until I

got way deep into my Bible. And I started reading through the Psalms and what God says and just the different books of the Bible. And I was just like, wow, okay, okay. Now I'm understanding. Now I'm understanding all these people did wrong in the Bible and God forgave them and what they needed to do.

was to walk out their purpose. And that's how you start realigning yourself and getting back on track and being able to forgive yourself. And that feeling that I am not a mistake. I was made on purpose for a purpose. And even though I messed up in the past, that doesn't define anything that I'm going to do moving forward.

Hope Mangiafico (22:13)
Yeah. Yeah, you know, that was really highlighted to me just in

the book of Ezekiel where it's like God kept withholding his wrathful hand. And at the end of day, continuously withheld because he's so patient and so loving and it's wrathful only because there are consequences to what we do. And that's what we have to also understand is like, consequences will happen because we are imperfect, but those are consequences to help modus and shape us further into.

Nikki Humphrey (22:25)
Yes.

Hope Mangiafico (22:47)
our purpose and what we're called to be. But like that blew my mind reading Ezekiel and seeing that. And it was just like, he's like, man, I, I, you know, I didn't do this in Egypt and you still did this and I didn't do this here and you still did this, but I'm going to withdraw my hand and I'm withdrawing my hand. I'm withdrawing my hand. And it's like, wow, God, you're so loving that one mistake will not separate us. Two mistakes will not separate us. Three, four, five.

All you ask is for that pursuit, Lord. And that does begin here.

incredible.

Nikki Humphrey (23:29)
It is incredible. And as I was reading Ezekiel, I'm like, Lord, I would have took them out a while ago because these people are not understanding. Like you've made it so clear about how good they are. I mean, how good you are. And they just wiling out every chance they get.

Hope Mangiafico (23:53)
It's so funny. Wildin' Yeah, it's just, it's a really great reminder of his patience. And so, because he is patient, you can be patient with yourself as well and on that journey. ⁓ And I, you know, I realize on a lot of our episodes, I like pause and I pray and I say something and...

They carry weight, but it does become your responsibility at the end of the day to say, okay, I receive that. I'm gonna pursue with all my heart that I believe it. Because we cannot be ⁓ influential enough, powerful enough, or any of those things without you choosing to believe these things.

Nikki Humphrey (24:40)
and it's getting in your word. And like we said in a previous episode, take those Bible verses that talk about identity and write them out on sticky notes. I used to put them all over my house, put them all over my car. And so you read them over and over and over again. And maybe the first time you read them, you think it's a baloney. Maybe the 10th time you're like, I still don't know. But when you let that word, God's word sink in you.

change will happen. You will start to believe it. I promise you I'm a walking talking testimony for that. My daughter is a walking talking testimony for that. Anything that the enemy slings

Hope Mangiafico (25:21)
Mm.

Nikki Humphrey (25:25)
you with, anytime he tries to make you feel bonded in shame, you speak God's word right back at him. It's like a

pickleball match, you take that ball, you serve it back, you like, take that. I am not letting it stick to me today. And it does take work and it does take time. But when you start equipping yourself with the word of God, Satan is gonna be mighty, mighty mad at you. Because he has to retreat, he's gotta go.

Hope Mangiafico (25:54)
And and Nick Yes

And that's a good reminder of that because you're right it takes work and that can sound intimidating Know that just getting it in you to a degree You can spit it out It doesn't have to be word for word as you probably learned from from Isen especially from me where I don't know where things are and I don't know the exact words But I know the message

And Satan gets the message, right? His whole kingdom gets the message when I know it. And the enemy listens, this is a really good word, because this spoke to me. He listens to our conviction of it.

So do not get caught up, just like people say, prayer is not about being all structured and saying it all formal. It's the same with warfare and believing what you read. It's no formality, it's just getting it out and believing it into the depths of who you are. So just be released of thinking it has to be perfect. ⁓ Just remind the enemy where his place is and where yours is as a child of God.

Yeah, pulled from the scriptures. anyways, that's good. I'm glad we actually briefly mentioned that, because at the end of the day, and you even said it towards the beginning when you defined things, like it is warfare. So put on your armor, read your scriptures, and say not today, dude.

Nikki Humphrey (27:30)
Right. Yeah. I mean, my daughter and I have been doing this super silly thing, but it really helps to reset us in the moment. We're like, we're shaking the devil off. We're shaking the devil off. It's so silly, but we're like, thank you God for coming in and intervening on us. Thank you for taking care of the situation. Like we're just shaking it off, whatever is coming after us. And we're letting God come in and make it right.

Hope Mangiafico (27:59)
It's silly,

Nikki Humphrey (28:00)
Thank you.

Hope Mangiafico (28:00)
but you're also moving your body at the same time, which triggers something in you, like resetting you. So it's got this multiple layer approach, as simple and silly as it seems. It carries a lot of weight on multiple levels.

Nikki Humphrey (28:15)
Yeah, and it resets us almost automatically. Like I'll see her, you know, feeling bummed out or whatever. I'm like, shake it off, Josephine, just shake it off. Have God come in, call on God, call on your father and let him take care of it. It said surrender.

Hope Mangiafico (28:32)
Yeah, that's great.

Nikki Humphrey (28:35)
and let him do the holy exchange.

Hope Mangiafico (28:37)
Mm-hmm.

I will never get tired of that holy exchange thing. It's so good. It puts it all on him. And I just, I love that so much. ⁓ That's so, so good. ⁓ What else you got, sister?

Nikki Humphrey (28:54)
So we talked a lot about shame. Let's dive into guilt a little bit because

We often see guilt as a negative thing. Now I used to think guilt was always negative too, but it can actually be a gift when it's from the Holy Spirit. Guilt is how the Holy Spirit gets our attention. know, have you ever like felt like you said something or you get a little nudge and you're like, I don't know about that. Like, maybe that wasn't quite right, Nikki. But the difference

between guilt and condemnation. Guilt drives you back to God. Condemnation pushes you away from him because you're condemning yourself. So when you feel guilt, we've talked earlier in this episode, like you have a choice. Like if you said something you wrong, you've sent a nasty text or whatever, like that guilt will usually, I know for me, will come up pretty, pretty quickly nowadays. And I'll be like, Ooh, yeah.

Hope Mangiafico (29:53)
Hmm.

Nikki Humphrey (30:01)
I need to fix that. I was wrong. Or I say something to my daughter or my spouse out of anger. And all of a sudden I'm like, Ooh, I need to fix that. know, whatever it is, whenever it comes up,

I'm prompted to change it or take action or sit with the father with it, be like, Oh God, this is what happened.

and repent from it and then ask for direction of how to proceed. Cause sometimes the situations are tricky cause you almost feel righteous sometimes in your anger or like what you said, but it doesn't mean it's right. And sometimes sitting with the father to get that download of how can I correct this thing, this action, these words I just said.

Hope Mangiafico (30:34)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it's not right because they're not the enemy at the end of the day. It's not you versus them. And you know what image came to mind ⁓ when you talked about condemnation pushing you away from God and guilt pointing towards him is I see like this hole in this pit and guilt is a hand coming in to lift you out of the pit whereas condemnation is just putting you deeper into the hole.

And it was this really beautiful image of God's hand coming down when you feel that conviction saying, I got you. And you let him lift you up. Whereas that condemnation I see in the condemnation realm or even shame of just living in shame. It's so dark and you look up and the top, the ground, the sky is so far away. His hand can reach there, but you gotta.

You gotta say, that's guilt from God. Okay, that's that conviction and reach for the hand and let it lift you up.

Nikki Humphrey (31:55)
sure.

And then, John, all of a sudden my eyesight went really bad, people. I got put out my readers. My eyesight was so good. And then it just went so blurry. That's what happens when you're 51. John 6, 8 tells us, when he, the Holy Spirit comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment. Conviction isn't about punishment. It's an invitation. The Spirit convicts us to bring clarity,

repentance and ultimately restoration with the Father.

Hope Mangiafico (32:31)
Ew,

yes. Ultimately restoration, amen. That's really good. this is really enlightening for me.

And it's interesting,

It is such a fine line as you continue walking with the Lord on your personal journey. And this is me speaking from experience of...

Mmm. This is really hard to get out. Like how to say it. As you get stronger in your walk and hearing the Lord's voice and that guilt and conviction, ⁓ be guarded of the misplaced guilt to bring you back into shame ⁓ because some of us

And I didn't even realize it for myself. Some of us have shame that's so deep that we know the Holy Spirit, we feel those nudges of the Holy Spirit, but somehow, because we're not fully surrendered in all areas or healed in all areas, you can misinterpret those still. And it's actually shame that's been placed there. ⁓

This is really hard to get out. You might be able to word this better if you even know what I'm trying to say, Nikki. And I guess it goes back to what we talked about last week, actually, about being unapologetically you and saying I'm sorry. And we talked about it being just a band-aid, but an area that I was weak in was I said it all the time because I felt like I was the size of an ant. And that's linked to shame.

but I also knew my actions weren't right. Do you know what I mean? And so it's like this dance. And I guess at end of the day, that's the thing. It's a dance sometimes. And so you really have to be careful of falling back into that realm is probably the best way to say it as you're continuing to grow and to walk with the Lord. And as you heal more, just like we talk about the roots being so deep,

It might look a little more cloudy sometimes because you need his assistance and knowing the difference as you journey with him and he's getting deeper to the roots of things. But he'll always make it more clear. But without his assistance in that moment, it can be very cloudy. Maybe that's a better way to say it.

Nikki Humphrey (34:57)
you

Hope Mangiafico (35:12)
All this might just be deleted. I'm like.

Nikki Humphrey (35:12)
And I think a no, it's great.

And I think a great tool to process everything that you're saying because they can be intertwined because there's guilt that's spirit led by the Holy Spirit and there's guilt that's weaponized by shame. And I think that's where it gets intermingled in our thoughts. And that's when we have trouble.

Hope Mangiafico (35:31)
That's a good way to put it.

Hmm.

Nikki Humphrey (35:40)
processing it because the spirit led guilt is a prompting where we have choices about what's our next right step. Guilt that's weaponized by shame brings up all those wounds, everything that we talked about at the beginning. It questions our identity. It isolates us. It helps. It causes us to break relationship with God, to misinterpret our identity. But that's when I like to get out my journal and write down what's going on.

Hope Mangiafico (36:07)
Yes.

Nikki Humphrey (36:10)
and process that with my father. When I'm able to write it out, it's easier for me to pick out is this the root that this guilt caused by shame or is this guilt caused by my choices that I made in that particular moment. And writing it out, sometimes just seeing it on paper or typing it on your phone, however you do your journaling, lets you get to the root of what

brought that thing up.

Hope Mangiafico (36:41)
That is actually the truth. Yeah. One, I love how you just presented that and two,

I do find, like, so like the way I was trying to ask that question, if I was able to take 20 seconds and write out what I was trying to say, the clarity would have came like that. And that's exactly how I work. When I feel very confused on something and I want the clarity, because I know God has the answer, it takes no time to actually sit and write it down. I have to make the time, but it really don't take long. And it's incredible what He'll give you when you do that. It's crazy.

Nikki Humphrey (36:57)
Okay.

Hope Mangiafico (37:15)
So that was a really good reminder, Nikki.

Nikki Humphrey (37:18)
It really is. And we talked about yes and no or asking God simple questions. A lot of times when I'm struggling with this, I'll say, is this a little Nicky problem or is this a big Nicky problem or issue? Is this a little Nicky issue or is this a big Nicky issue? If the prompting is saying, God is saying this is a little Nicky problem, then it's probably a shame wound that I experienced when I lit up.

Hope Mangiafico (37:30)
Mm.

⁓ yes.

Nikki Humphrey (37:48)
when I was

little. If it's a more current issue, probably just guilt coming in about what I've did and how I've reacted because of my programming when I was little.

Hope Mangiafico (37:56)
That's great. That's so good. Because shame has history.

Yeah, shame has a history attached to it.

Nikki Humphrey (38:05)
Yeah?

Hope Mangiafico (38:06)
That's really good. This is great. It's very good.

Nikki Humphrey (38:16)
There's, and then of course I had to look up Biblical examples of shame and guilt because again, we always want to go to the source. Hope and I are not the source. God the Father is the source. The Bible is the source. So.

Guilt that led to repentance. Peter denied Jesus three times. Luke 22, 62 says, he went out and wept bitterly. That was guilt and it brought Peter back to Jesus. Later in John 21, Jesus restores him and says, feed my sheep.

Hope Mangiafico (38:40)
Hmm.

Nikki Humphrey (39:02)
And then guilt acknowledged and surrendered became a launching pad for purpose. Judas had guilt mixed with shame. And that's what we've been talking about. Judas felt remorse, but he let shame convince him he was unworthy of redemption. Instead of turning to Jesus, he gave up in despair. Matthew 27.

Hope Mangiafico (39:29)
that's a great example.

Nikki Humphrey (39:30)
Shame will always

try to convince you it's too late, that you can never redeem yourself in the presence of God.

Hope Mangiafico (39:42)
That's a really good example. And we've talked about Judas before. ⁓

Nikki Humphrey (39:49)
But it's like

the same point in the Bible. Two people had two experiences and they dealt with them differently.

Hope Mangiafico (39:53)
Yeah. ⁓

That's wonderful.

Wow.

And it carries so much ⁓ weight in a good way that like their experiences were directed at Jesus, like both of them. It was directly with our savior. And so that just shows like there's nothing that's too far gone. Cause I mean, they had that face to face encounter with those saints.

Nikki Humphrey (40:19)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hope Mangiafico (40:33)
Ugh, he's so good.

Nikki Humphrey (40:34)
And I said

this earlier and I'll say it again, when you feel those things come up, you feel that guilt come up, I always ask myself, like, what's my next right step? Okay, I messed up. Okay, that didn't go how I planned it. that, I could have did that better, but what's my next right step? Am I gonna continue on that path or am I gonna do something right now to make a change, a conscious change in my behavior, my attitude, my thought process?

Hope Mangiafico (40:44)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki Humphrey (41:04)
What am I doing next?

Hope Mangiafico (41:05)
Yeah. And that's really all that matters.

So I was going through my notes trying to see from personal experience if I had any notes on guilt and shame and I didn't have much other than that they were linked to a spirit of accusation which we talked about which makes total sense. But when I was flipping through those notes something that I found that was so powerful that complements what you just said is it saying how your daily walk with the Lord

is not so much about having sure, making sure you have your quiet time every day, though getting in the Word is so important. But it's about that moment by moment choice you make. So you can't go beyond that moment, because you go moment by moment in life. So Nikki, your example of what's my next right choice, that's how you walk the walk with the Lord. It is not being here all day every day.

Nikki Humphrey (41:42)
Yes.

Hmm?

Hope Mangiafico (41:58)
because you're gonna get tired. It then turns into religious ritualistic things, but it's choice by choice by choice by choice. That's how you stay strong with him.

Nikki Humphrey (42:13)
Yes. Yeah. Because he knows he's our father. He knows we're going to mess up. He knows we're going to make choices that aren't in alignment with him. I say that to myself almost every day, Nikki, what's your next right step? Girl, get it together. What's your next right step? Like it happens. We're human, but what are we going to do to correct it?

Hope Mangiafico (42:28)
That's it.

Yeah, that's.

Nikki Humphrey (42:40)
Are we

going to ignore it like little kids do? Like little kids just ignore it. And sometimes they double down on their lie or their actions. You know, are we going to own up to it, repent and make a better choice? Simple, not easy.

Hope Mangiafico (42:56)
Yeah.

Really is. It really is. One day we'll all be okay that it's simple and we'll continue to put on our big girl pants and big boy pants and

move forward in this simple but not easy journey. That's really great though. It's really good.

Nikki Humphrey (43:16)
Right. Yeah.

because God doesn't want you wrapped up in the bondage of shame. He does not want you living there. He wants you to not live in darkness. He wants you to be a bright light for the whole world to see. And like Hope said, even though we feel like our scarlet letter is showing, sometimes when we show that vulnerability, sometimes when we show where we have

been sometimes when we talk about our dysfunctional past or present, that light hits the others and you attract people who maybe wouldn't be attracted to God the Father. But they're like, there is something different about what this person is doing right now. And they've had circumstances similar to mine, but the choices they're making, boy, is that making a difference in their life.

And I want to, that makes people curious about how they can gain freedom, just like the person who is out there being vulnerable gained theirs.

Hope Mangiafico (44:33)
Absolutely. And you're talking about being a light and you know darkness is defined by light because darkness is the absence of light. you have to

You know, we think the world is so dark and we're surrounded by darkness, but it's simply because not enough light is shining out. It's all within us. But if we would let that light shine, darkness disappears, because that is the absolute definition of darkness, the absence of light. So let your light shine and bring people on the journey. I saw in those same notes I mentioned earlier, I don't know where this came from, I wrote it on the side, but it was like talking to someone.

And it reminds me of Network Marketing Day's Nikki to be honest, but it was a spirit led thing where it's like, yes, I have sinned, but I'm headed in the right direction and I'm really enjoying the journey. You want to join with me. It's what you kind of just said is like, you know, like they see a difference in you and you're like, yeah, that's my past. I totally like I was sinning and doing all kinds of crazy things and I'm not there yet.

But it's been a really good journey and I know I'm headed in the right direction. You wanna come?

Nikki Humphrey (45:48)
That's right. And

when people are veiled in darkness and they're veiled in shame.

what I used to imagine for myself and what I tell a lot of my clients, it just takes a pinprick, just a little pinprick of light to come in to cancel out the darkness. It doesn't have to be this big dramatic transformation shift all at once. It's just a teeny little pinprick at a time. You let in light, you let in God's love, you let in His direction.

Hope Mangiafico (46:01)
Right.

Nikki Humphrey (46:25)
and his discernment and you start slowly walking out your own path to freedom.

Hope Mangiafico (46:32)
because light was absent. So that pinprick lets the light in. It doesn't matter. It does not define it. This much light gets rid of the darkness. It's just straight up the absence of light. So you let that pinprick in, it is no longer absent.

Nikki Humphrey (46:36)
Okay.

That is right.

Hope Mangiafico (46:49)
It's so good. It really is.

Nikki Humphrey (46:52)
So cool.

Do you have anything else?

Hope Mangiafico (47:00)
No, I don't have anything. This was a good one for me, a good lesson and reminder and to recognize how personally I still can let the enemy's voice or from the enemy's camp just make me think that I'm still walking in shame or make me think guilt is a thing of shame, which means it is, which means I need to.

address that with the father. ⁓ know, like by seeing that I had unclear lines still shows that the root of shame was still there and some of the guilt. That's it. So it's great. I've learned today. You know, it's good.

Nikki Humphrey (47:50)
And the bottom line, guilt is a gift when it comes from the Holy Spirit. It leads us home. It leads us back to the Father. Shame is a trap that comes from the enemy. It keeps us in bondage. Just a reminder to all of you out there, you are not your worst moment. You are not what shame says you are. You are who God says you are. You are loved. You are chosen. You are forgiven.

You are redeemed.

And if this episode brought you comfort, considering sending it to a friend who is quietly struggling with shame or guilt, your courage to share might spark the freedom for somebody else. Until next time, walk gently with yourself, boldly with God, and always in the truth of who He says you are. You are fearfully and wonderfully made.

Hope Mangiafico (48:51)
Amen. Until next time.

17 Guilt vs Shame

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